Talk:Trent Alexander-Arnold

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Trent Alexander-Arnold/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Kosack (talk · contribs) 08:17, 8 July 2018 (UTC)

I'll take a look at this one, will post review soon. Kosack (talk) 08:17, 8 July 2018 (UTC)

Initial review

Early life and career

• Ref 8 doesn't seem to be adding anything to the sentence it's placed after and we already have four other refs for a relatively small and uncontroversial sentence.

• Ref 8 removed accordingly.

2016–17 season

• In the picture caption, his name needs the hyphen between Alexander and Arnold and change u-18 to U18.
• Also in the caption, should Arsenal have U18 as well to differentiate between the first and youth team?

• I've hyphenated his name and differentiated between senior and 18. I've also linked the teams to their respective reserve & academy pages in the image caption.

• "in the fourth round of a 2–1 EFL Cup victory over Tottenham Hotspur.", reads a little oddly. Seems to suggest it was the fourth round of the actual match rather than the competition.

• Tweaked wording to read: "... in a 2–1 victory over Tottenham Hotspur in the fourth round of the EFL Cup."

Senior England national team

• Unlink friendly, already linked previously in the article.

• Done

Personal life

• "His maternal grandmother, Dooreen Carling, was once also a girlfriend of former United manager, Sir Alex Ferguson, before moving to New York City", is this relevant? I'd say we try to avoid listing who dated who generally for the subject, so his grandmother dating someone who has no real connection to him seems a bit of an odd inclusion.

• Relationship flows from soft links to Man United in the previous sentence. I've reworded to read "in a relationship with" rather than "girlfriend of" to make it seem less teenage-y but if you still feel it is irrelevant I don't mind removing it.

• The following sentence states he is eligible for the United States by descent but doesn't explain why (grandmother's marriage). I'd include the reason why.

• Added that she married in New York, as per the NY Times ref.

References

• Ref 12 doesn't seem to mention the Swindon match.

• Added ref from Liverpool ECHO

• Two of the ESPN refs (13, 20) use ESPN FC as the publisher, while the other (15) uses just ESPN. I can't see any obvious difference between the sites. If they're all the same site, use one style for consistency.

• ESPN refs are now consistent.

• Is there an alternative ref for 16? Not a deal breaker but the use of the Daily Star as a reliable source makes me slightly uncomfortable.

• Removed and replaced with a ref from the official EFL website.

• I notice you use the newspaper template for the Guardian, Liverpool Echo, Irish Independent etc but not the Telegraph or Independent. Is there a reason for that?

• I think this was just a difference of style from the different users who have edited the page, I have included the template in refs for the Telegraph and Independent.

• Most Liverpool website refs use Liverpool F.C. as the publisher but ref 37 uses FC instead, stick to one style for consistency.

• Ref 37 amended accordingly.

• For Goal.com you use both Goal and Goal.com for the publisher, stick to one style for consistency.

• Goal references have been made consistent.

• Ref 50 seems to have expired, any chance of retrieving it or finding an alternative?

• I've removed ref 50 altogether. The information is suitably contained in ref 49.

Overall, very little to complain about. A highly polished article, mainly just some consistency with ref formatting. Placed on hold for now. Kosack (talk) 19:11, 8 July 2018 (UTC)

Hi Kosack, thanks very much for the review. I've made a few changes as per your review above and left a point below each recommendation you've made. Give it another read through and let me know if there is anything else which needs tweaking. Thanks, Liam E. Bekker (talk) 07:34, 9 July 2018 (UTC)

@Liam E. Bekker: Nice work. I have no further concerns over this one, promoting. Kosack (talk) 09:19, 9 July 2018 (UTC)

Special:Diff/1132128622

Edits like this are getting tiresome in my opinion. We should all know the archived source gives us 1.75m instead of some other figure other people, mostly anonymous, keep changing. That has happened a lot in 2022 alone. Iggy (Swan) (Contribs) 11:28, 7 January 2023 (UTC)

Vice Captain

Need to update that Trent is the vice captain of Liverpool FC right now. Where should we put the update? 59.102.1.76 (talk) 08:32, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

Need to adress his recent role-change:

Since April 2023, Jürgen Klopp has used Trent in an inverted full-back role,not just drawing out the advantages of Trent's world-renowned passing ability, as well as gaining a numerical advantage in the middle of the pitch. 86.129.13.42 (talk) 21:11, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

2023-24 EFL Cup win

There are some editors on here obsessed with not crediting players for trophies they have won. Trent was part of the team that won the 2023-24 Carabao Cup and thus should be listed as a winner, even though he missed the final. There is precedence for players receiving medals even if they didn't play in the final (see Martin Dubravka, who received one despite losing with Newcastle, as he'd previously played in that campaign for Manchester United). Furthermore, I have found a source that is listed as acceptable and trustworthy on WikiProject Football, but certain editors keep claiming it isn't. It's getting ridiculous at this point. ScouseSocialist (talk) 00:34, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

I don't think anyone is obsessed with not crediting players players for trophies they've won, it's best not to assume bad faith as you have done multiple times now.

As far as I understand it, Soccerway is reliable for some information (i.e. stats) but less so for club honours. I believe (although I may be incorrect) that it lists honours for all players that are in the squad regardless of whether they won a medal. If TAA had played 0 minutes, Soccerway still would list an honour. Players might receive a medal even if they didn't play in the final but they won't always receive it - we don't know for sure either way in this case, therefore we need better sourcing to know for sure. Also, Transfermarkt is never a reliable source for Wikipedia. Thanks Michaeldble (talk) 20:20, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

Hi @ScouseSocialist, please see this discussion on @Mattythewhite's talk page to start. I'm not obsessed with not crediting players--in fact I'm a fan of the club and think TAA is one of the most talented players I've ever watched. However, there's a pretty clear issue with sourcing that we keep pointing out, and it doesn't appear to have been met yet. There is no particular reason why Soccerway is reliable for the specific fact of whether or not Trent received a winner's medal. They might be reliable for other facts, but Soccerway is functionally a very nice database and there's no reason why this company (who run the site) have any insight into whether Trent has received a medal. They do not claim to be journalists, they don't claim to do fact-finding, and in any other context regarding living people, we would not allow them as a source. That is why this edit keeps getting reverted. Alyo (chat·edits) 20:21, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

That’s fine, but we seem to be thus going on Mattythewhite’s say-so, and I’m not exactly comfortable with that. It feels like two independent websites (regardless of whether they’re primarily known for something or not) as well as LFC’s own website, as well as previous experience like with Martin Dubravka should be enough evidence.

I see Harvey Elliott is mentioned in that discussion, and yes he didn’t make enough appearances to get a medal officially but the clubs get given extra to distribute and it’s up to the club who gets them. He certainly has one, because I’ve seen it. ScouseSocialist (talk) 01:23, 31 May 2024 (UTC)

That may be true re:Harvey, but one of the cornerstones of Wikipedia is that information must be verifiable, and unfortunately someone seeing the medal doesn't help us, unless that information has also been placed in a reliable source. Alyo (chat·edits) 16:14, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

I wasn't claiming otherwise re: Harvey. But we do have verifiable sources for Trent having won the Carabao Cup again 2023-24, sources which are accepted as reliable in other parts of Wikipedia. Therefore, they should be acceptable for the 'Honours' section. ScouseSocialist (talk) 10:33, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

But I don't think we do. Unless you have different sources than what you've brought up. Transfermarkt isn't reliable at all, and Soccerway is just a database that pulls numbers and doesn't do their own research. Am I missing another source? Alyo (chat·edits) 15:52, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

Liverpool themselves have acknowledged Trent as a winner. I think they get to decide who receives a medal. Stop reverting the changes just because you have some weird obsession with not accrediting players with their actual honours. 213.123.235.227 (talk) 14:08, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

If you have an independent source saying he won a medal, please provide it. Alyo (chat·edits) 14:26, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

You don't need an independent source when his own club acknowledges him as a winner. I have applied for this page to be locked now anyway to try and prevent any further unnecessary and biased amendments. Pringjames (talk) 09:58, 31 October 2024 (UTC)

Yes you absolutely do, that's a pretty core part of Wikipedia. Alyo (chat·edits) 12:47, 31 October 2024 (UTC)

More/updated sources for perception

• Guardian 100 2023
• Guardian 100 2021
• ESPN right backs
• "Alexander-Arnold has redefined the role of a right-back in the modern era with his remarkable attacking output."
• Alexander-Arnold has consistently delivered on the biggest stages for Liverpool, en route to establishing himself as one of the best right-backs in world football.
• Alexander-Arnold can be considered to have ‘reinvented’ the role of the English right-back

Alyo (chat·edits) 16:10, 5 June 2024 (UTC)